Q is for Quote

This post is part of the ongoing Alphabet Series. Listen along to my recording on YouTube and/or read the article below ♥♀

Confucius. Einstein. Gandhi. Descartes. Socrates. Churchill. King. Wilde. Mandela.  If it’s got a penis, the assumption is that it has some sort of insight or wisdom that no one else has ever demonstrated and that we should write down and attribute and even use as a measure of our own insight. Most of these select and immortalized words are attributed to males, but I also find that males are much more likely than females to throw what I have come to call ‘scrote quotes’ into prepared speeches and writings, but even into random conversations, as well. I started paying attention to this back when I was an undergraduate student and I would attend meetings for the lab I worked in. Some of the male students loved talking and dropping little nuggets of so-called wisdom that wasn’t their own – either quotes or factoids about sciencey stuff – and I began to suspect that they were making shit up in order to score points with the rest of us. And over the years, as a student, as a work team member, as a teacher, and as part of various social groups, I saw a common theme that went something like this:

  • Males talk too much and too loudly,
  • Males are pathological interrupters, especially if the person speaking is female,
  • Males are more likely to attack what other people say, especially if the speaker is female, and
  • Males put more stock in what other males say even if it is clearly bullshit, and like to scrote quote.

We all understand well the male belief in their own deservedness for simply being male, regardless of race, and their over-confidence, in general. This helps to explain their disproportionate oral presence in groups. They don’t really understand the concept of not having a voice. But why the devotion to other males? Why do they like to build up other males and even to quote them? Or maybe the question should be is scrote quoting just knee-jerk devotion to the brotherhood or a more calculated attempt to look intelligent or sensitive or insightful or humanitarian? Perhaps it is both as males seldom quote women or reference women’s contributions to the intellectual community, even if the women are acknowledged experts or intellectuals.

Regardless of the intention, male speech in general and the quoting and pseudo-intellectual posing of some males in particular elicits eye-rolls in me, and if I were the kind of person who could pull off a smug sort of snort, I’d probably do that too. Needless to say, as I’ve become more separatist in my lifestyle, I’ve avoided mixed-sex discussion groups, and I’ve almost completely stopped reading books by male authors. I did read a fairly well-done non-fiction book by a male on the history of salt a few years ago, but male fiction is pointless to consume, and I don’t feel I’m missing anything by putting to stop to men’s thoughts entering my world. That might bring gasps of horror from a lot of people. But would it shock the same people to know that my first 18 years were almost completely devoid of female-authored writing other than the requisite Judy Blume novels and the Nancy Drew, girl detective series?

But back to quotes. Do women really say nothing worth remembering and recounting? And do what men apparently say actually mean anything? I’ll dive in a bit with some examples, but before I do that, let me just say that I consider famous quotes to be a bit like modern art – and I’m saying this as someone who appreciates skills and talent and hard work and who doesn’t put this genre of art into any of those categories. It is a bit of a cliché to say, upon viewing a modern art installation: “What’s so great about this? I could do it. Hell, my 5-year old neighbour could do this.” But it is true. There is no skill in painting a canvas completely black or placing a bunch of laundry soap boxes in a random pile. Anyone could do it. But one person did it and became famous, and among a certain community of people, the installation is ‘genius’ because of the person who did it and the context it was done in, and perhaps the political or social climate at the time. In a similar fashion, most quotes are said hundreds, thousands, and even millions of times by people around the world at different times, but it became famous and attached to one person because of who the person was, and the context it was done in, and perhaps the political or social climate at the time. Women are just as likely to have said something supposedly noteworthy as a male, yet most of the time, it is male voices that are heard and acknowledged. And of course, males are notorious thieves of everything women create. We know this. But words. Can we ‘own’ words? In a male world, indeed. Everything can be owned and attributed.

What purpose do quotes serve? Lots of reasons, apparently. They supposedly preserve intellectual observations. They give a false sense of validity and non-fiction to religious teachings. They warn us to follow rules. They inspire and motivate. They serve as humour, but in a way that diffuses anger and deeper thinking about serious truths. For me, sometimes I read or hear a quote and it just doesn’t have the impact that it seems to have for so many. I’ll provide a few examples of scrote quotes that fall flat for me, before I get into lady-quotes.

Who doesn’t love Einstein, the world’s favourite quotable male intellectual? But I just think his words are nonsense at worst, and obvious, at best. For example:

“Learning is experience. Everything else is just information.” and

“A person who never made a mistake never tried anything new.”

I just don’t understand why these inspire people. So many seem to hear them and say “whoa, that’s so true” to themselves. But many intellectual and inspirational quotes aren’t that deep or analytical and end up just stating the obvious.

I find religious quotes to be hilarious. The ones taken directly from religious texts and presented as words spoken by real people or people who are conduits for a supernatural being are ridiculous. It would be like me quoting a character from Harry Potter and pretending it means something profound, like: “It was the wand-maker, Ollivander who said in the Philosopher’s Stone: ‘Curious indeed how these things happen. The wand chooses the wizard.'” and then looking at my audience in a knowing way and trying to make a profound statement about destiny. There are also quotes from the so-called shepherds who seek to rally the flock. MLK is a great source of inspirational nonsense. For example:

“Faith is taking the first step even when you don’t see the whole staircase.”

Yikes. Sounds deep, but it is just a clever way to justify non-thinking. In reality, he is describing living. Faith is more like falling asleep and dreaming you’re climbing a staircase to what passes for heaven in your religion.

And a good scrote quote that masks a problem in cheap humour comes from Jim Carrey.

“Behind every great man is a woman rolling her eyes.”

The original quote is something like “Behind every great man is a strong woman”, which of course is supposed to acknowledge the unsung heroines in a man’s life – wives and mothers – and serves as a verbal Valentine’s Day. But Carrey’s quote and the many other humourous spin-offs out there are effective, not in attacking misogyny, but to make us laugh ourselves back into complacency. Carrey will likely be called ‘feminist’, but he is still part of the problem. Women can laugh at the truth, but they’ll keep on supporting their men, putting up with the nonsense, yet still reaping the benefits of heterosexuality.

Speaking of fake-feminism, let’s get into lady-quotes. There is a new genre of quotes called ‘feminist quotes’, which consists mostly of heterosexual women saying obvious and fluffy things about girl power or problems with men that they are complaining about, but are still willing to put up with in exchange for a better economic outlook and social standing. Almost zero percent of these feminist quotes are actually feminist. Woman speaking does not equal feminist. These women’s words are remembered and quoted because their words have little substance or may have substance, but the speaker doesn’t walk the talk in their lives. They aren’t threats to men, in other words. We don’t pay attention to women who actually say something important. That is key to remember. Here are a few examples.

Michelle Obama is a good source of inspirational, ‘feminist’ fluff. The perfect politician’s wifey.

“There is no limit to what we, as women, can accomplish.”

There is no substance to these words and only inspire a ‘duh’ response in me, followed by: “But we have heterosexuality, misogyny and male violence that impose artificial limits and then convince girls and women that those limits are real and natural.” But she wouldn’t be allowed to say that, would she?

And then we get some good old lib-fem nonsense from icons like Madonna:

“I’m tough, I’m ambitious, and I know exactly what I want. If that makes me a bitch, okay.”

As you may have noted in my last post, I’m not big on reclaiming slurs. I don’t find this quote inspirational, although I suppose I can appreciate the message that we shouldn’t give a shit what people think about us as females. But given how Madonna has marketed herself, she is 100% a conformist and thus does care about her audience thinks of her. There is a mismatch.

And then we get to actual feminist quotes. In my opinion, one of the most quotable feminists that has ever existed is Andrea Dworkin. I think I’ve read most of what she has written and have listened to recordings of her speaking publicly. This is a woman who saw truths and related them to us and she was hated by many for it. She is not the only quote-worthy feminist, and I include a slide-show of quotes in the side bar of my blog. But here I’ll include a few Dworkin quotes that mean something to me.

Any violation of a woman’s body can become sex for men; this is the essential truth of pornography.” and

Men often react to women’s words—speaking and writing—as if they were acts of violence; sometimes men react to women’s words with violence.

Really, there are so many uncomfortable truths, truths I’d never heard anyone speak before I read Dworkin. And what she said during her time could be applied 500 years ago and it can still be applied today. Does this not exceed the current standard for most of what passes for famous quotes?

Conclusion

For me, the measure of a good quote is this: does it speak a truth that is not immediately apparent and that makes you think about things that might be uncomfortable or difficult? Further, is it something that is not commonly said by many across time and place? There is a place for motivational slogans and addages, but to attribute these to a single source, especially to a male who is not as remarkable as he and his followers think he is, is not quite right. Let’s not lump unique quotations in with the ‘right time, right place, right sex’ phenomenon known as modern art. Words have to mean something and quotes have to touch something deeper.

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Feminism, atheism and other stuff

Posted on August 8, 2024, in Language, Male Privilege, The Alphabet Series and tagged , . Bookmark the permalink. 9 Comments.

  1. Hi, I really appreciated this post! I do like your videos on YouTube as well, but I now refrain from commenting on yt entirely, for similar reasons as to why people cut their twitter and FB accounts.

    It is true that men quote eachother incessantly. I think this stems from their reproductive urge, which hijacks language and clear communication to allow optimal chance of reproduction. This also explains why men often react to what women say with violence, as Dworkin said, because true communication and sense making threatens their chance to reproduce – there are too many people in the world, but it is very very hard for women to do anything about this, even though it would technically require nothing at all and no violence to anyone. But men perceive this as violence. In this way, men seem to see themselves as transcendent of the present, as some node in an unbroken chain wherein threatening their hypothetical descendents is the same as a threat to their own being in the here and now. I guess they have a lot to lose by this point, having accrued so much. Maybe some of them have colonised the 4th dimension, and they haven’t let us in on it?*

    I recently saw two videos, one of a woman encountering a bear and another of a man encountering a mountain lion. Both reacted in a very similar fashion to deter an attack. However, the comments on the vid with the woman were overwhelmingly scathing and sexist, and those on the vid of the man generally complimented the size of his balls. One of the biggest hypocrisies was that commenters ignored or praised the man for filming the encounter, while nearly all commenters noted with disapproval that the woman was filming, and most of them insulted her gratuitously for it. Male commenters in both vids also made the same jokes, over and over, and accrued a depressing amount of likes for these stale jokes. I think I’ve just taken a long time to explain what was a circle-jerk.

    My point is that everyone was complimenting the man in the video, and boosting his profile as a brave dude, for no clear reason, as they disdained the same behaviour in the woman. It was very obvious. There were, as always, some rare exceptions to the rule, thereby proving the rule.

    I agree that women can replicate this behaviour, this quoting, in a faux bonding ritual which is allowed to them under patriarchy. They can repeat fluff feminism, as you call it, all day.

    *Joanna Newsom wrote a song somewhat on the topic of the 4th dimension, The Waltz of the 101st Lightbourne. She is a big asset for patriarchy, with her huge talent and huge brain always on their side in any serious analysis.

    • Hi, thanks so much for your comment.

      You’ve got it – it really is all about their dicks when you boil it down, despite males trying to make what they say and do be about something else. Reproduction, legacy, proving they have some kind of worth despite all evidence to the contrary – it’s funny, initially, when I was designing the YT art for this post, I was going to depict a circle jerk, but I didn’t want to get censored for that before anyone bothered to even listen 😉

      The comment on time is interesting. I do think that males would love to say they have colonized the 4th dimension. I’ve never met a woman obsessed with immortality (youth, yes, but I think that is another thing altogether and not a natural pursuit at all), but men talk and write and act obsessively about/with it. I find women are more likely to feel a bond with nature, and if you can do that, you can accept your temporary place on earth. Many men feel that nature is an enemy to be conquered (what isnt an enemy to them…?); maybe it’s opposition to being tethered and temporary and less important than they wish to be. It sounds like complicated psychology, but isn’t if you look closely. I just don’t have a good word for what they are.

      Yeah, I’ve noticed the double standard in reactions to males and females engaging in the exact same behaviour. I wonder if people see that they are doing this. Maybe some. For all, it is just so normalized to violently dissect women and girls, and to be honest, it doesn’t really matter what females do – it is up for criticism. It’s enough to promote self-censorship in females – that is the biggest shame. Knowing that no matter what you do, people will hate on you. It’s easier just to throw your energy and support behind a man and avoid the spotlight.

      Speaking of Joanna Newsom, despite her support of males (no surprise being from Portland, OR, a hotbed of lib-feminism), she attracts a lot of male hate because of her “acquired taste” voice. Like so many women with unique voices and lyrics you have to think about, she is accused of trying to be clever and is compared to other women singers because women can’t be individuals. This never happens to men. Bob Dylan, whom I have a really hard time listening to because of his effing annoying voice that drones on and on, off-key, nasal, and whiny, and sounds the same in every single song he puts out, is considered a genius. Mind-boggling to me.

      • I do think that males would love to say they have colonized the 4th dimension. I’ve never met a woman obsessed with immortality (youth, yes, but I think that is another thing altogether and not a natural pursuit at all), but men talk and write and act obsessively about/with it. I find women are more likely to feel a bond with nature, and if you can do that, you can accept your temporary place on earth. Many men feel that nature is an enemy to be conquered (what isn’t an enemy to them…?); maybe it’s opposition to being tethered and temporary and less important than they wish to be.

        God this makes so much sense. Whenever I see immortality interest/promotion, it’s from a man.

      • Once you see it, you can’t unsee it 😉

  2. I started a reply but wordpress canned it. I also can’t like your reply for some reason, hm.

    Very true regarding many men disliking Joanna’s unusual voice. I have never understood why people find her voice odd, because I naturally gravitate to her and other female artists with such voices. It is often only later that I discover that most people find their voices aggravating or an acquired taste.

    I’m sure male quoting and repetition is linked to their universal propensity to create religions. I have always been amazed at religion’s longevity given how boring and horrible religious texts are, especially since we have had so much superior literature since then. I would be able to comprehend Harry Potter (to go back to your example) becoming the basis for a religion, because it is an extraordinary world. I just can’t credit that people are truly won over by the deserts and the stonings and commandments. There is something else going on.

    Something which is relevant that I have observed in big and small ways; men who are willing to use intimidation, implicit or explicit, will be given way to and supported by the majority of people. I believe this is the deciding factor of success for many prominent men in the world. And because their success is in part due to threats of violence, many people will lie on their behalf, especially other men looking to catch some of their psychopathic shine. Sort of a standing behind the bully scenario. Certain women certainly use bullying tactics as well, but they never ever compare to male campaigns. If a female-led North Korea arises, I will reassess.

    • I think you’re onto something. I’ve been thinking a lot about transaction and how violence and the threat of violence are male currency and sex and the promise of sex are female currency (not by female design, of course, and you can’t achieve that much with it, comparatively). As currencies, these things and those who have them in abundance, are held in some sort of esteem (fear, respect, worship, etc.) And they are sexed currencies. We don’t respect a violent woman, but we are fascinated by male psychopaths and serial killers. Aggressive men become CEOs and presidents and dictators. Aggressive women become bitches and pariahs. I see sex as a less valuable currency, kind of black market, as it tied to violence and harms women as much as it can ‘help’ them. In the hands of men, it only helps them since they are still operating on violence as the primary currency.

      Religion runs on violence, of course, as it was designed by men. I can’t even imagine free women feeling a need to design a religion. What purpose could religion serve outside of a patriarchal system? Under men, it is very important. It controls huge groups, provides origin stories for male power, gives permission for and justification of violence (male currency) and suffering (female punishment/burden), and gives a false sense of purpose and a carrot (heaven/forgiveness) to distract from the stick.

      “I have always been amazed at religion’s longevity” – yeah, no kidding. Mind-boggling since we have so many ways of understanding a scary world now and since, like you said, there is so much more to read now. But it justifies the male currency, so ain’t going away anytime soon.

      “If a female-led North Korea arises, I will reassess.” – Exactly. Hard to imagine it happening. If you consume today’s television programming, you’ll notice that male content writers do their best to sell this myth – that women are equally capable of violence, which they aren’t. Writers of crime shows make sure that there is an equal distribution of male and female killers, and in apocalyptic-type shows, there are plenty of vicious female warlords (warladies? lol). I don’t pay for tv, but I do access free sites to keep tabs on Western devolution via mass media. It is a good way to notice trends in misogyny and ‘feminism’. I recently watched an apocalypse series called The 100 – one of the most female-warlord-heavy programs I’ve ever watched. Shocking really, but I think this is a symptom of the new wave of ‘feminism’. Women are violent, toooooooo. And even smartish people who consume television who should know better, end up buying in. TV, like religion, is a vehicle for propaganda.

  3. Violence and sex as male and female currencies is accurate worldwide. Your black market analogy for sex/women is especially apt. Sometimes humans have issues because we have strayed from nature, but not with regard to this issue. Sex and violence are nature – I remember seeing a doco about tigers, and in a territorial dispute between the male and female tiger where the female had initially fought physically, she eventually changed tactics to sex signalling to placate the male, probably to stop him from killing her. Any sexual dimorphism in mammals seems to lead to this outcome. Shulamith Firestone wrote about the basic sex difference dilemma very explicitly in The Dialectic of Sex, and she landed on a form of transhumanism as a way to liberate women. This reminds me also of Mary Daly placing female liberation in a different dimension with females being energy. I hadn’t thought about it like this before, but two of the most prominent radical feminists reached conclusions that liberation was essentially females leaving their bodies/biology in some form or other.

    I don’t think women need or want religion in the absence of men either; Harry Potter was just one example of a story far more engaging than the Bible or the Torah etc.

    Religion is indeed very useful for men. It is the ultimate reversal that it is the highest truth – it is the original sin (Mary Daly) and the hijacking of honest communication in order to steer females to males with minimal physical/mental effort by males – saves them calories.

    Yes, the equally violent women trope is rife, and it is so stupid. A brute force attempt to equalise men and women, by dragging women up (down) to male levels of violence, so that then women can conveniently be left with the bill for all male violence.

    • That’s right, it is nature, isn’t it. The sad thing for human females, besides having to deal with this currency at all, is that sex becomes a lifestyle, identity, and a goal/purpose instead of a last resort attempt to survive dealing with a male in the wild. Humans are not better or more evolved than animals, imo.

      “… liberation was essentially females leaving their bodies/biology in some form or other” – this is what it boils down to. Interestingly, a lot of women, including self-proclaimed feminists get very angry/defensive when one even hints that this is the ‘solution’ (however possible/impossible). Bring up the subject of artificial wombs, for example, and all hell breaks loose. I personally love the idea of merging with plants and changing the way reproduction happens altogether… Men just aren’t interesting as creatures, but they demand sooo much attention and energy because of the problems they inevitably cause for everyone. Don’t want them, definitely don’t need them.

      I really enjoy your comments, by the way – here and on CRE’s space. Thanks so much 🙂